With their new Kickstarter campaign for NeverEnding II, it felt like a good time to talk with Jamie VanDoren about the origins of NeverEnding. He agreed to sit down and talk about this RPG web app and all he’s accomplished with it.
EGG EMBRY (EGG): Thank you for reaching out. I covered NeverEnding when it was up on Kickstarter. Can you share what NeverEnding is?
JAMIE VANDOREN (JAMIE): Thanks for taking the time to talk with me again, Egg. It’s great getting reconnected. Thanks you.
I can tell you what NeverEnding is right now, and what it’s going to be.
Right now, NeverEnding is a web app you can use to create, save, and share custom character portraits and character bios. But we’re building the app, feature by feature, into a full blown digital storytelling toolbox for players, DMs, and streamers. Eventually you’ll be able to create and publish webcomics and animated videos – without being an artist or an animator.
In May, we’re coming out with a token maker. You’ll be able to turn the characters you create in app into tokens with custom backgrounds and frames.
In July, we’re aiming to introduce one-click posing of characters so they can be sneaking, laughing, casting a spell, whatever. Also in July we’re hoping to launch the Beta of the Scene Creator, where you’ll take those characters and make party portraits or webcomics.
Last, but not least – our goal is to roll out basic animation tools October 2021.
It’s a lot of work. Hopefully all worth it!
EGG: Does this support a specific tabletop RPG system or is it open to any type of roleplaying experience?
JAMIE: Obviously, we have to start somewhere, so we’re focusing heavily on fantasy style right now. So, like D&D, Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, Dungeon World, and so on. We’ll introduce additional genres and even new art styles as we continue to expand.
Ultimately though, the app won’t only be for tabletop gamers and DMs. It’ll be for anyone who wants to take a story idea in their head and turn it into something publishable. I’m picturing people making their own superhero movies or fanfiction-based webcomics on Harry Potter or something else.
Where I hope to really see it take off is with streamers and independent game publishers. There’s so much awesome stuff coming out right now. Not everyone can be the next Critical Role. But imagine if streams were introduced with a kick ass animated trailer. Or if after a session a stream published a webcomic recapping the adventure. There’d be so many new ways to build and engage audiences who love RPGs – because they love good stories.
And the new systems that are coming out? Woe. I don’t know if you saw the Wagadu Chronicles by Allan Cudicio and his team? It’s this beautiful Afro fantasy world. The art is stone cold stunning! I can’t even express how badly I want to see an animated series set in that world. Or, that new Kickstarter that just came out? I backed it… Shadow and Crow? No. Coyote and Crow! I’d love to see game designers with ideas like that bringing their stories and character to life with NeverEnding. I can’t imagine I’d be the only person basically throwing money at the screen to get them to create more! (laughs)
EGG: I did an interview with Connor of Coyote and Crow. Nice guy! I feel your thoughts on the artwork for that and Wagadu Chronicles. So, tell me how your project’s progressed since the Kickstarter closed in July, 2020?
JAMIE: Wow. Yeah, it’s been a lot. It’s been good. But it’s been a lot.
The good news is we’ve made some solid progress. The bad news is, as the pandemic continued it really took a toll on the team. From people having family who got sick (and got better thankfully) to people’s full-time jobs getting completely upended. We hit some bumps in the road.
We had a small team and a few of them had to step away because of changing family and work commitments. Any spare time they had for the project evaporated as their companies experienced layoffs, they had to manage kids being at home all day every day, and having to help sick family members. All of us hope we can get our entire original crew back involved when life gets back to some semblance of normal.
All that said, we didn’t stop. There’s a lot of people out there passionate about D&D, passionate about gaming, and really excited for the idea. I still had a smaller core team and we rebuilt and grew. We now have six developers. Our lead developer, Kristi Werry is just brilliant. She is so smart and such a good programmer it’s almost scary. The whole team is brilliant. We brought on two new designers, another artist, and a faculty member from the Cleveland Institute of Art who teaches 3D modeling and game design.
Long story short, we launched a Beta of our Character Builder December 1. We had about 185 people back the original Kickstarter, and 144 of them got into the Beta the first day. Since then we’ve grown to about 1,500 members. My hope is we hit 3,000 to 5,000 by June. We’re rolling out new features and fixes monthly and new character options weekly. I think we’ll see a nice bump nice people can create and export custom character tokens.
EGG: That’s solid growth. This app builds scenes, correct?
JAMIE: Well, the app doesn’t build scenes yet. But soon! There’s a lot of work still to make that happen, so you can add a custom background, add props, place and pose your original characters, and of course monsters.
Actually, the work is in making the experience of building scenes fast and fun. With the expected Beta release of the Scene Creator in July members of NeverEnding’s community will be able to make any kind of scene, including combat scenes or other roleplaying scenes.
We expect to see a lot of D&D themed memes!
EGG: What kind of audio will you be able to add to the experience?
JAMIE: Initially, you’ll have to import audio, like background music or sound effects. We want to get to a point where you can record the audio directly on the app.
So, imagine if you’re running a D&D session on Roll20 or maybe eventually one day hopefully in person. So, imagine if you’re already playing, you’d just have NeverEnding open and recording in the background. Someone might be logged in so they can tag important story moments. Maybe something was especially funny, so they add a “humor” tag. Maybe there was a really good interaction with an NPC, so they add an “RP” tag for role-play. That way when you go back to edit it or cut it down there’s some guide marks.
EGG: What level of animation will the tool support?
JAMIE: Our Beta will be mostly stop motion style with some individual semi-fluid character specific animations. For example, you’ll add an animation to a character to swing a weapon and set the duration and how many times or if they repeat it.
Once we have basic animation features we want to make the process feel like a video game. That means being able map specific animation to your keyboard or game controller.
The end goal is to have anyone using NeverEnding be able to create quality animations so good they could sort of compete with Disney or Netflix.
Obviously, we have a ways to go and that’s a few years out.
EGG: What kind of pre-built assets are users enjoying the most?
JAMIE: Now that we added wings, I am seeing more winged characters being built. I’m a little surprised by how many people seem to like the really long fey style elf ears we have as an option. (laughs)
Oh. We also see more bearded characters. We have a plan to come out with this wickedly cool library of just awesomely amazing beards. We have so many in the works! It’s crazy. I don’t normally play dwarves or anything, but I’m really excited for them.
EGG: You’re working on creating some new assets, can you share what they are?
JAMIE: For our recent Kickstarter, we’re introducing two heavier body options and some new armor options. The really cool thing we’re working on, however, is incorporating amputations, prosthetics, and wheelchairs.
My mom is intellectually disabled and I have other family members with both physical and intellectual disabilities. Prior to NeverEnding, I was on the executive team for a non-profit that provides housing for people with disabilities. The fact is about 26% of Americans experience a disability, and every single one of us will experience disability if we live long enough. But we don’t see it in our games and we don’t see heroes with disabilities.
I want to change that. For me, I think NeverEnding is a perfect place, because we’re focusing on fantasy. Why not have an elf with a magical living wood prosthetic arm or a dwarf with a prosthetic leg that’s a mix of metal and magical energy? One, it looks cool as hell. Two, everyone deserves the chance to feel seen in their games and to be the hero of their story.
Even though it’s something I’m passionate about and have had experience with, I can’t take the credit. We were really lucky to pull together an amazing advisory panel of disabled people who gave of their time and talents to make sure we do it right. And the excitement they shared told all of us on the team how important it is. We’re all waiting, anticipating the launch of prosthetic options, which should be sometime in April. We expect wheelchairs to come later, in August.
EGG: That’s a great direction for this app. I want to thank you for talking with me. Where can fans find out more about this project?
JAMIE: Thank you for the opportunity. I really appreciated it!
Everyone can find out more on our website. They can read all about us there and there’s also a button that will direct them to the Kickstarter. If they’re interested in trying the Character Builder, they can also go to the app and create a free account [here].
NeverEnding II: Create Your DnD Character How You See Them!
End Date: Tue, April 13 2021 1:00 PM EDT.
“Be seen in YOUR story, with NEW character avatar options, including new body types!”
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